The key question: Will it still be fun?

topic posted Fri, December 16, 2005 - 10:44 AM by  Jay
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Hi folks,

Like a number of people, I've decided to give the new changes a month, more or less, and then make a final determination about whether or not I will remain on Tribe at all (assuming that they don't delete me first -- I may be gone from here within minutes of making this post; it may vanish as well.)

The problem seems to be this: From its earliest days, Tribe has positioned itself (at least informally) as, in essence, the "spicier" alternative to places like Yahoo and Friendster. This likely has something to do with the large number of burners who made up, and continue to make up, a substantial percentage of their membership. Burners are something of an alternative-friendly crowd, and as a matter of course tribes related to those alternatives sprung up fairly promptly -- these included BDSM, polyamory, transgender matters, and the myriad aspects of sex in general.

Now, Tribe management says that such content, basically, is no longer welcome unless it conforms to something of a PG-13 standard.

The thing is, if we could have been happy under _that_ standard then there would have been no compelling reason for us to leave those other places such as Yahoo or Friendster.

Given that it is the "spicier" content that drew us to Tribe in the first place, if that content becomes unwelcome then the fundamental reason that many of us came to Tribe no longer exists.

Thus, there would be no particular reason to stay.

Without that content, the "newer, blander" Tribe is much like the other places. Its unique positioning in the market is gone. (Plus, that means that Tribe's former niche would become vacant to somebody who cared to create an alternative.)

Frankly, given how Tribe management has so ham-handedly handled this matter, at some level my heart is irreversably just not in this place anymore -- not like it used to be anyway. Tribe used to be my major time sink and guilty pleasure. Now...

Certainly the statements by Tribe management about "the law" have been exemplary in their vagueness, imprecision, and unpersuasiveness. (A "national standard"? Puleeze. That's not even consistent with "Miller." Further, under "Miller", speech can quite easily be sexually explicit and yet still not be obscene -- a distinction that seems lost on Tribe management.)

While I'm discoursing on legal topics, let me take a moment to talk about 2257. (I knew that law degree would come in handy.)

Two things:

First, the legislative intent of 2257 is to combat child pornography. Unless something "walks, talks, and looks" like child porn, it's vulnerability to 2257 is very questionable. (FYI, the "Red Rose Stories" website apparently had text-based stories involving child porn on it, which is likely what drew the feds even though it was "only" text.)

Second, 2257 is a very badly written law. We have a constitutional guarantee of freedom of speech in the U.S. Under the constitution, laws which abridge freedom of speech can be constitutional only if they are "narrowly tailored to achieve a compelling government interest." This is known as the "strict scrutiny" test. 2257 clearly fails the strict scrutiny test because it imposes an undue burden on secondary producers -- who should be entitled to rely on the primary producers. Thus, 2257 is not narrowly tailored and therefore is unconstitutional. It will almost undoubtedly be overturned by the courts.

I have made up my mind on one point, and on this point my decision really is final. I absolutely, positively will _NOT_ self-censor either my profile or the tribes I moderate. No way, no way in hell, will I do their dirty work for them. No way will I put my own energy into this despicable task. If they don't like my content, let _them_ remove it.

I more and more think about how everytime I make a post (such as this one), put up a picture, or even send a private message, with every keystroke I work for free to provide content to a for-profit corporation. Given that I make my living as a writer, this is especially attention-getting to me. Exactly how long do I want to go on working for free for a for-profit corporation that has clearly let me know that "my kind" is, at best, rather suspect?

Additionally, I've lost track of how many new members I've personally recruited for tribe. Certainly it runs in the dozens. Unlike Yahoo, this was supposed to be a place where we were welcome. Given that that is currently very much in doubt, I shall not be nearly so active in doing such recruiting.

I also more and more think about how everytime I look at a different page I create what's called an "impression" and that Tribe earns its money by selling advertising, basing its rates on how many impressions an ad is likely to have. Again, how long do I want to go on being an unpaid money-maker for this for-profit corporation if I have the status that I do?

Remember folks, it's all about "eyeballs to advertisers." Where you put your eyeballs has value, cash value, to somebody. You are doing somebody a favor when you look at something, and even more of a favor when you post. Please remember that.

So that's about it. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. The bottom line is that this place used to be more fun than the other places. We shall see if the new changes do or do not spoil the whole thing.

If you want to make sure that we remain in touch, please email me at jaywiseman@yahoo.com. You can also reach me through my publisher, Greenery Press.

This post may be forwarded as you deem appropriate.

Best regards to all,

Jay Wiseman, JD
posted by:
Jay
offline Jay
SF Bay Area
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  • Re: The key question: Will it still be fun?

    Fri, December 16, 2005 - 11:45 AM
    I agree partially with your assessment but would like to make you aware of a few things that might expand your opinion slighty.

    1) Although 2257 is WORDED as if it exists to combat child pornography that is not how it is being used. For example: Lets use the example of a BDSM extreme photograph of a consenting couple in their 50's. Even in a non commercial setting, if the individuals do not put up an address where a records keeper can be found (most likely the couple themselves in the case of an amateur photograph) they can be cited on a 2257 violation. If they DO go with the government standard and post the information. They know exactly where to go should they want to fine you for an indecent act itself. It makes people into targets.
    This is similar to the way the patriot anti terrorism clauses are being used to track meth producers. The law is written as one thing, but used for others.

    2) I'm not completely convinced that tribe will go completely to hell just yet. If they do, people inevitably will create something to replace it and they will lose in the long run. I personally am going to wait this out a bit more before making a decision. If they censor tribes all together I will inevitably leave, if they just make them private, then I really won't be that bothered.

    We're living in a culture of fear where rules are kept vague on purpose! I've been an adult performer online for almost a decade and I've seen various rewrites of 2257 come and go along with vast penalties from credit card companies, paypals unlawful closing of accounts belonging to members of the adult community and other troubling issues. The one thing that I've learned throughout it is that its always better to keep your eyes open, be prepared for the worst but don't overreact until the shit actually does start heading to the fan. Right now the shit is still hovering slightly above ground level ;)

    -Heather
    • Re: The key question: Will it still be fun?

      Fri, December 16, 2005 - 11:56 AM

      Hi Heather,

      Nice to hear from you, and I appreciate your thoughts.

      My main point re: 2257 is not about how it is being used, but rather about how it is unconstitutional -- for the reasons I stated, it's not "narrowly tailored" as is required of a law that affects free speech and therefore will not stand once it hits the courts because it is overbroad and unduly burdensome. (However, it will be a major, disruptive, and expensive pain in the ass until it does hit the courts.)

      Policitians pass laws all the time that they know from before Day One are clearly unconstitutional. This is because politicians are accountable to the voters, not the courts. 2257 is exemplary in its unconstitutionality.

      Best regards,

      Jay
      • Re: The key question: Will it still be fun?

        Sat, December 17, 2005 - 2:34 PM
        Oh I completely agree!
        That is one of the reasons why it keeps ending up in court.
        The only thing that bothers me is that the people who generally are fighting it are lawyers for mainstream porn.
        They aren't looking out for the general public, only for their own interests.
        Partially I always hope that they'll come after me. Being the cute, educated, over 18, nonexploited sex kitten that I am! I'm hardly the type of person they want in the media fighting them :)
  • Re: The key question: Will it still be fun?

    Sat, December 24, 2005 - 10:39 AM
    "Now, Tribe management says that such content, basically, is no longer welcome unless it conforms to something of a PG-13 standard."

    That's not my understanding at all. My understanding is that they are simply driving the more risque elements underground. Asking us to close the door behind us before we talk, as it were. And frankly, I'm astonished that they've allowed us to leave the doors open as long as they have.

    "The thing is, if we could have been happy under _that_ standard then there would have been no compelling reason for us to leave those other places such as Yahoo or Friendster. "

    I don't think this is a fair comparison.

    Tribe is creating an underground. They are telling us specifically how to run an underground on tribe. We may not like that we need to go underground and we may rail at the form the underground is taking, but there is an underground. Tribe accepts that the underground and spicier communities exist, and are making a place for us.

    In contrast, yahoo has long been hostile to adult topics of any sort and offers no accepted method of approaching them. Friendster similarly bars such topics and offers no private or closed door approach.

    A better analogy would be livejournal. But livejournal has had a conventional approach to closing doors on adult discussions, (while still allowing such forums to be publicly listed), at least as long as I've been involved with livejournal. More, livejournal is very obviously populated by a burgeoning underage crowd. So one could argue that the issue is even more relevant there. I rarely notice children on tribe, but I bump into them regularly on livejournal.

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